Customizable Magnetic Marble Course Rolls in Success

Roy Morejon:
Welcome to Art of the Kickstart, your source for crowdfunding campaign success. I’m your host, Roy Morejon, President of Inventus Partners, the top full service turnkey product development and crowdfunding marketing agency in the world. We have helped startups raise over a $100 million for our clients since 2010. Each week I’ll interview a crowdfunding success story, an inspirational entrepreneur, or a business expert in order to help you take your startup to the next level with crowdfunding. Art of the Kickstart is honored to be sponsored by Gadget Flow. The Gadget Flow is a product discovery platform that helps you discover, save, and buy awesome products. It is the ultimate buyer’s guide for luxury gadgets and creative gifts. Now let’s get on with the show.
Roy Morejon:
Welcome to another edition of Art of the Kickstart. Today I am talking with Elyasaf Shweka, industrial designer at Makeway. Elyasaf, thank you so much for joining us today.
Elyasaf Shweka:
It’s a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.
Roy Morejon:
Well, I’m super excited, because you are the top campaign right now on Kickstarter. You have made this amazing product where you can create these intricate courses and watch marbles move around in a modular, really cool puzzle way, with the magnetic bits and everything that you’ve created on it. And as a kid growing up, I used to make all these different types of things, so I’m excited to see this project that’s now raised over $1.8 million. So I know that you’ve got a great back story, and our audience is going to be really excited to hear about some of the stuff that you had been doing and how you’ve pivoted, and failed forward, in a sense, to bring Makeway to market. So please tell our audience where all this started, and what inspired you to create Makeway.
Elyasaf Shweka:
So actually, this is a funny story. It was around five years ago, I think. Kickstarter was a bit different than nowadays in several senses, and I saw many projects running around and raising a lot of money, all kinds of different projects. Some are very good, some less. And I remember talking to my brother and saying, “You know, I’m an industrial designer. I have some professional knowledge about production, about all kind of technologies, and why wouldn’t I try to do my thing, go on Kickstarter?” And he said, “Yeah, great idea. What’s your idea?” I said, “Okay, give me a few minutes and I’ll come back with a good idea that will fit Kickstarter platform.”
Elyasaf Shweka:
And then a minute after, I called him back and I said, “I have a great idea. Let’s make Marble one machine, and let’s make it magnetic so it will be flexible, that we can use any metallic surface like a metal door or a fridge as a canvas, which you can change all the time and you can play with it and you’re not bonded to any kind of structure. You can do whatever you want, because the sheet is wide and you can use it in any way you want.” And he said, “Yeah, that sounds like a great idea.” And this is launched the… Where I started working on it. And this was around five years ago, and I guess here we are now.
Elyasaf Shweka:
And the background for my interest in this would be, I guess, when I was six or seven years old, I used to play with another brother of mine building with Lego, the most basic Lego bricks that we had. We didn’t have any kind of fancy Lego, just the basic bricks. We used to build weird contraptions of marble machines that you put a marble at the top and then it rolls down and slides, and then it gets into a closed box where you’re not sure where it will come from through different options. Adding manual levers and all kind other additional parts, and I was always fascinated about machines, I guess, from very young age. And I guess it was natural for me to start working on this project, I guess.
Roy Morejon:
Well you’ve built up an amazing following in terms of 22,000 subscribers on your woodworking YouTube channel. What got you started there in terms of building a community and sharing and showcasing the skills and talents that you’ve cultivating over the years?
Elyasaf Shweka:
So the woodworking was a very important phase in my development as a designer I guess, or as a maker or woodworker. A few years ago I got fascinated with videos… YouTube videos I started popping, of making all kind of end grain butcher blocks or cutting boards, and I was fascinated from the woods, the color of it, the way it takes shape. The natural look and feel of wood. And I decided, “Well, I should start trying to do it myself.” And I bought some basic machines, but high quality ones. Started working from my house, from my apartment, which is in a building. It’s not a smart idea, if anyone is thinking of trying. Making a workshop inside of an apartment when you still have kids in the house and you have neighbors, it’s not a good idea with all the dust, health issues with all the noise. So I started working on that.
Elyasaf Shweka:
I was focused on building machines; jigs and other assemblies, to make the workflow easier, to get higher precision from the machines that you have. And I was more interested, actually, in building machines than actually building the final product, because I was more interested in the process, in the jig, in the way to make it correct, the innovative process around it, more than the actual product. And if you can see in my YouTube channel, one day I just started videotaping it and then editing, and people started subscribing, hoping that one day I can find a way to get an income from it. A profitable business maybe, from woodworking, or establishing a community. But looking at it from these days, it was a huge failure from my side, but I learned several lessons from that phase, and went on for plastic and where I am right now with Makeway.
Roy Morejon:
Yeah. So when you were creating Makeway, talk a little bit about that process. I mean, how did you go about deciding what features to include in the designs? Because in the campaign itself you have everything from connectors, to tracks, to tricks, to marbles, to lifts, to all these different add-on devices. How did you guys go about deciding what features to include in the campaign?
Elyasaf Shweka:
So the process of the designing is… Or the whole process of the success of Makeway, the way I see it now, is teaming the best partners at each stage. And after working on it about four years on my spare time, because I have all this talking about working about woodworking, I did it all in my spare time because I have full time job in a contractor company. I didn’t have daily work as an industrial designer. This was all like… I consider it as my hobby. And at one stage it was a hobby that got totally out of proportions, in a sense. But it was always what I did when I came back home from work, working till the very late hours of the night, almost till the morning sometimes, 3:00 AM, 4:00 AM, building machines and working and doing woodworking project.
Elyasaf Shweka:
And then, working on Makeway in that structure was really hard. At one stage I understood that I can’t finish it alone, and I teamed up with a good friend of mine Reuven Shahar, he’s also an industrial designer. He was a colleague. We learned industrial design together about 15 years ago, and we share the same excitement about the same things, I guess. We are both feeling like still little kids in many senses, of playing and games and stuff like that. And then we started working on it together… And it’s a good question actually, how do you know that this part will work? Or what part you should invest your time in? Because it’s… Actually to address that, I guess you need to come first with a lot of faith that you have an idea and you believe that it can work. There is no actual signs for it that proves that you are right, but you need to invest the time and start working.
Elyasaf Shweka:
For example, you want a catapult that the marble will trigger it, which will shoot it to the other side. And you have no clue how to start even. Or even the basic part, a pole that takes a marble from one spot to another. And you’re starting just working at building prototypes, on prototypes, on prototypes. On many parts we had hundreds of prototypes for each one, printing of the idea that we had. And with a lot of trial and error, going back and forth, as you print your prototype, you understand what you did wrong, and you already implement some kind of fixes and changes in the design, and then you print it all over again. And with a lot of work, and many, many trials and errors, and learning from the process, trying to achieve something that will work. And then after it works, after you prove the concepts, start designing that it will look nice, that it will make sense, that it will be easy to inject with plastic, and so on and so forth.
Roy Morejon:
Tell me about how the conversation began about understanding crowdfunding, and how to use or why to use Kickstarter as a means to launch Makeway?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Okay, so as I explained, Kickstarter was in my mind from the very first minute almost, because I saw many people without… Like Kickstarter was aiming at people like me, you know? A maker that doesn’t have the full understanding of mass production, but having the ability to deliver, or at least believing that he is having his ability to deliver. And trying to give him the first push, as the name states, Kickstarter, the first push to succeed. And I felt this is a right platform for a stage, but then I had a very different understanding from what I have now. I thought, “Well, I have already my YouTube channel, which is doing quite well in my means, 27,000 subscribers and 4 million views. And I thought, “Well, I know video editing, and I think I can tell a story quite well, and I can do a Kickstarter company myself.”
Elyasaf Shweka:
And then again, my brother stepped in and said, “This is not how things work. If you want to succeed in a large scale on Kickstarter, you need to go to the professionals.” And this is a lesson I’m learning every time, that you need to team up with the best people that we have around, and each one will do the best he can in his own field. I’m an industrial designer, I’m a maker. I think I’m good at thinking of an idea and trying to implement it and to deliver it plastic-wise, and to show the concept, but I don’t have any experience in crowdfunding. So why not leave it to the professionals?
Elyasaf Shweka:
And it took me some time, actually a very long time, to understand that he is correct. And he offered, “Okay, there are several different companies. Try to contact one of them.” And I contacted an Israeli company named Tross Media, which are professionals in exactly that, in campaigns on Kickstarter and Indiegogo crowdfunding. That’s what they do. And in my opinion they are probably one of the best, if not the best, companies in that field.
Elyasaf Shweka:
And luckily they actually offered me their services, but I couldn’t afford the services, they were too expensive. I came without any funding, and they said, “We want to partner with you. Let’s partner together, and each one will do his best and we’ll share the profits.” And I’m very happy to this offer. I immediately took it, obviously, and we started a very long process of a few years actually, of making sure what is the real audience of this game? What is the potential? What should be the right pricing? What should be the look and feel of it? All this process, trying and checking again with the crowd, actually, if our assumptions are correct. And then starting with the actual pre-campaign, and after that going into the full campaign on Kickstarter, which is closing in two weeks.
Roy Morejon:
So you’ve mentioned that you’ve been working on the pre-campaign for this for over a year or two years. What was some of that prep work that you did leading up to the campaign? Because on launch day you guys had over 600 backers, and did over 70,000 in funding and just the first day. What were some of the things that you did on the marketing side, the testing, the content, the pricing, that led to such a successful launch?
Elyasaf Shweka:
So in general, as I said, this was mostly the work of Tross Media company, but I was involved, obviously, but I didn’t manage it. I was focusing on the game. But in general, this kind of product, in my opinion, and it seems like I was correct, is a product that it’s easy in a sense to gather a crowd around you, sitting on the edge of the chair waiting for it to launch, because there’s a lot of excitement around it. It’s a lot of fun. It’s something different, something that many had in mind in some sense, and was looking forward for it. So we started pre-campaign, started together, we made up a landing page, basic one just showing the idea, some courses that I made in my house and showing the potential, and asking people to subscribe and to hear from them, “Do you like the project?”
Elyasaf Shweka:
Just started to A-B testing of the pricing to see their reactions. And their reactions were great from the very first minute, luckily. Well we had our assumptions and our predictions, but no one really knew that this will succeed. No one can promise that. And luckily and fortunately, everything went better than planned, I guess, for every stage. And the pre-campaign was a very important stage to reassure ourselves that our assumptions that we can back it up with numbers, and with real people that are interested, to gathering emails. And then for the very first day of the campaign, we already had enough people ready for it, aware to this product, knowing that this is going to be launched soon. And the gathering of this emailing list really helped us to make a strong launch, which helped all the process of the campaign.
Roy Morejon:
So how big was your community that you built in the pre-campaign stage? How many email addresses did you guys have in your database?
Elyasaf Shweka:
If I remember correct, a few thousands I guess. Yeah, around a few thousand. The pre-campaign campaign wasn’t so long, and it was successful enough for us to, I guess, in two or three weeks we felt we were ready for the big launch on Kickstarter itself.
Roy Morejon:
Talk to our audience a little bit about the referral program that you’ve been using with Kickbooster. Has it been successful for you?
Elyasaf Shweka:
The referral program we were using… Actually I’m using here mostly an app called BiggerCake. It’s part of what Tross Media is doing. They are giving creators on Kickstarter a platform to manage many aspects of their campaign. So the referral program was made, we launched it a week ago. And it’s based also on BiggerCake platform, hoping that if someone is excited from the game, he would want to offer it to his friends, family, colleagues at work, and giving him the option to get some kind of reward for introducing us to too many people that he can. And this is basically a backer brings another backer, and trying to expand the community. And we launched it a week ago, but it’s showing some good results, I guess-
Roy Morejon:
Excellent.
Elyasaf Shweka:
… In people bringing more awareness to the game. And it’s a win-win situation, you enjoy the game… Not enjoy, but you like the idea, you backed it yourself, you brought it to another one. You can be rewarded in some kind of way in being able to buy more stuff, or to get more from Makeway.
Roy Morejon:
So with over 12,000 backers on your campaign right now currently, talk a little bit about your experience with the backers so far. Have you gotten much feedback? What have they been saying? How are you potentially utilizing some of their insights into future products or stretch goals, for instance?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Okay, so there are several things to address here. First would be, this is obviously overwhelming. I’ve been in this process for more than a month. Since it started, I’m working 17, sometimes 18, maybe more hours every day, and sleeping four hours or less every day. We’ve got an enormous… How should I put that? We’ve got a lot of contacts. For example, just a few interesting stories. Apparently in Japan, which is a very big crowd, but they don’t speak English, so there’s some kind of a TV show from the nineties still running on the national TV, educational TV maybe. And it’s called Pitagora Suitchi. And it’s all about Rube Goldberg machines and all kind of conceptions that are meaningless but doing cool stuff with balls, and many videos are around. And it’s very, very popular in Japan.
Elyasaf Shweka:
And the minute that Makeway launched, I got till now, more than 30 or 40 connections of people asking me to try to launch a crowdfunding in Japan, or to be a distributor for this game. Because it seems it’s already a big hit over there, because it’s touching a sensitive nerve in a good way, I mean, or something that reminds them of this TV show, and which is actually part of their… I don’t know if identity, but very crucial part of their lives there, I guess. And I’m still trying to grasp it, but how should I put it? The reactions that we got was really overwhelming, especially from Japan. But not only… Also from many people in Taiwan, I guess they have the same TV show. But overall, many distributors and a lot of people are excited. Many, many ideas that we got. And for further research and development process, and ideas for different tracks and different options to implement it on. Many people asked me about suction cups, maybe so we can use it on glass. Windows, glass walls and stuff like that.
Elyasaf Shweka:
And to be honest, I feel in a sense that the best part of Makeway hasn’t been invented yet, because as we speak… For example, yesterday I came up with a new part that I had an idea, I went to the computer, designed something on Solidworks, and printed it. And it works fine, and it’s ideas that we never had before. Or people are always challenging us with new ideas, and it’s actually very hard to stop and to say, “Right now we need to focus on fulfillment of what I promised,” and to hold for a second the further developing of new products. I need to focus on what I have right now, and we already have a lot. But in a sense, this is what excites me so much about this project, about Makeway in general, that we founded a system, a way to connect things and the way of thinking of marble ones on vertical surface. And this is just a starting point, and we’re just starting to understand or to grasp the potential in full. And I guess this is the most exciting thing about Makeway.
Roy Morejon:
Absolutely. So what’s your biggest takeaway or surprise from running the Kickstarter campaign so far?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Well, the first take, you’re asking me what surprised me, right? What I didn’t expect, I guess?
Roy Morejon:
Right.
Elyasaf Shweka:
Yeah. I guess I wasn’t really aware of how much work I’ll have around contacting all the publicity, like answering all the comments, the messages, the emails coming at me on all social platforms with all kinds of… One of the biggest companies of software in the world contacted us was crazy ideas of collaboration, a lot of exciting features. I wasn’t really ready for that, but I guess we can never be ready for this kind of overwhelming happening around you, and only a week ago, I started looking to hire someone to help me with that. Obviously also, this is something I should have done much earlier, I guess. It would save me a lot of time.
Elyasaf Shweka:
Also understanding that this is a very professional process, in a way. The way I thought about it five years ago, I just thought, “You know, you launch your campaign, that’s it.” But then you need to understand advertisement in general. It takes some money to reach people. And the question is, how much margin do you have to play with that?
Roy Morejon:
Right.
Elyasaf Shweka:
I mean, obviously you need to have a very complicated and thorough process to be sure you’re not doing mistake. You need to be know the exact pricing, and you need to be sure not to make mistakes in that. You need to understand the different scales, because I was thinking on one scale, and now we’re talking about a different scale of 12,000 packs that I need to deliver, and this is the first stage. We haven’t still actually offered it for sale as a final product. Not yet, because it’s not ready yet. So this gave me a total different understanding of where I’m standing at, and on what scale we are talking about. And I didn’t have that in mind when we first started the whole project.
Roy Morejon:
Yeah. I mean, what challenges do you foresee coming now that you overfunded your campaign by so much?
Elyasaf Shweka:
It’s a good question, because the immediate way of thinking it would be the more backers you have, you have a better starting point. I mean, you have better crowd, you have bigger… “I now can negotiate better with all the suppliers, with the fulfillment centers, with the shipping, with any production lines that I need, with a magnet suppliers. Everyone I am now sending out the better point.” This is the obvious way to think of it, but I’m not sure that is true, because jumping up from one scale to another, this price was at… Also, which is not immediately, “Everything’s cheaper now.” Everything is in a bigger scale, there’s more responsibility.
Elyasaf Shweka:
Just for example, I can give some example of the shipping. We assumed that the average pack would be X. Fortunately people thought otherwise, and bought in bigger scales what we offered in the first stage. [crosstalk 00:25:55]. We were very happy about it, but the pricing of the shipping would be more, because people bought more and the average pack was heavier, and what I assumed would be the average pack, and the way I calculated shipping, was a bit, let’s say, wasn’t accurate enough. And this is part of the thing. You’re selling more, and every seller is happy of selling more or offering more, but we didn’t thought thoroughly, or we didn’t have enough information at that stage to price the shipping correctly by the price that I’m going to pay for it.
Elyasaf Shweka:
And this, for example, just to simplify the project, we decided on flat rate worldwide, whatever pack you have, we decided on a flat fixed rate. And this is something that I need to subsidize right now more, because I didn’t grasp or I didn’t have the tools to understand beforehand how much people would want it, I guess, or how big they want their packs or the packets again.
Roy Morejon:
Yep. Definitely some good problems to have, with over-funding at one point $8 million. So congrats on the success. I’m excited to know also, where does this next? What’s next after this campaign?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Actually right now, it’s the hardest thing to do, but we have this figure of speech. Me and Reuven, my partner, which is designing this again with me and doing all the managing right now, and we say, “Just let’s keep our head straight, not up, in front of the computer and keep on working.” Because it’s so hard to stay focused with all the noise around. A lot of it is a good noise. I mean, it’s overwhelming. It’s beautiful to see all the excitement of all the encouraging comments we get, all the people that are saying that this time they wish we had launched it a few months ago, so they’ll have it right now where everyone is staying at home with their kids, looking desperately for what to do with the family together, and said this could be a great solution for that.
Elyasaf Shweka:
But trying to focus, and we have already a lot of customers, 12,000, more than 12,000 we need to deliver. And before we are answering all the exciting opportunities ahead of us, let’s focus on delivering this project. Because many people are aware that there are great things about Kickstarter, but there’s some kind of risk in it. And we are trying to make sure that we’ll do everything to fulfill on time before we start looking up and grasping some of the opportunities that are around us. And doing that in this time with the situation… Obviously with the coronavirus, the thing it changed already, making it even a bigger challenge.
Elyasaf Shweka:
But as I said, focusing on delivering is my first priority, and there’s a lot. But everything that needs to be done is only after we are sure that we are fulfilling correctly. That we feel obligated to the backers much more than we are obligated to the brand. Because the backers right now helped us reach this stage, and without that nothing would have happened. So it only makes sense to be sure to fulfill your backers before you start talking about expanding the brand to educational, and to museums and different shops, and all kind of [hackathons 00:29:41] around. We have first fulfillment to make.
Roy Morejon:
Excellent. It’s great to hear your focus on the product, and hopefully you’re still able to deliver the product in September of later this year. Has the coronavirus upset or displaced any of your supply chain at this point?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Actually China, as everyone knows already, coped this problem quite well compared to the world. And the factories there, from the most that I know, are doing quite well. Most of them work in almost full capacity already, and we don’t expect issues with production and manufacturing. There are some problems regarding shipping, and regarding fulfillment in general, as this has a major change. Obviously the shipping around the world got into a specific stage in hold in some way. Obviously no flights, and you know, this is obvious. Other than that we are happy to see that we don’t see reduction, would that be the word? We don’t see… People are not afraid to buy. It’s not affecting the campaign itself, and it’s not affecting the way the customer react, at this stage at least. And more than that, people are actually looking for it now, because they’re looking for, as I said, things that will keep them busy in the house. And this would be an exciting new activity in the house, and actually seeing more potential for it and more reason to buy it, actually. So there are two ways for it, but this is in general.
Roy Morejon:
Oh, this is great. Elyasaf, this gets us into our launch round where I’m going to rapid fire a handful of questions at you. You good to go?
Elyasaf Shweka:
I’ll do my best. Okay.
Roy Morejon:
So what inspired you to be an entrepreneur?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Good question. Wanting to be free, I guess. [crosstalk 00:32:04].
Roy Morejon:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s a very common answer on the show, in terms of the freedom that it can afford you.
Elyasaf Shweka:
Right. But there’s a price for it. I’m aware now of some of the prices. I’m not regretting any stage, but just saying in general.
Roy Morejon:
Freedom is not free. Right?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Right. Yeah. Freedom is not really free, you know?
Roy Morejon:
So if you could meet with any entrepreneur throughout history, who would it be?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Whoa, great question. Leonardo Da Vinci.
Roy Morejon:
Da Vinci. Yeah, he’s a great inventor as well. What would be your first for Da Vinci?
Elyasaf Shweka:
How are you so good at everything you do? Like sketching, drawing, building, manufacture, everything he did was great. Everything. How did he manage to be in so many disciplines altogether, and good at almost everything he did.
Roy Morejon:
What’s your favorite invention?
Elyasaf Shweka:
My favorite invention. Marble machines.
Roy Morejon:
There you go. What’s your favorite business book or life book that you’d recommend to our listeners?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Business book. There’s a very small… It’s not even a book, it’s a booklet. It’s called The Dip. Not sure if you’re aware of that. It’s discussing that every company have a stage in which they are down, and then the difference between the peoples that are succeeding and not succeeding, the peoples that are coping and managing to go through the dip. That’s how he called it. And I felt that I read that book right in the time I needed it, because I was in the times that your head is down and working so hard, and not seeing the end. This is the point where most of people are going back, and it helped me just go towards that stage, I guess, to where I am now. It’s called The Dip-
Roy Morejon:
Yeah. That’s a great read by Seth Godin, for sure.
Elyasaf Shweka:
Right, yeah. Correct.
Roy Morejon:
Where do you see yourself in five years?
Elyasaf Shweka:
Managing Makeway, I guess, and then expanding the possibilities. That’s an easy question.
Roy Morejon:
Nice. Last question in the launch round. What does the future of crowdfunding look like?
Elyasaf Shweka:
It’s a great question. Is it a long answer or short answer? If it’s short-
Roy Morejon:
However you want to answer.
Elyasaf Shweka:
Okay, I’ll just say from what I see on Kickstarter, it started in people like me looking for a place to find crowd for their inventions, makers and stuff like that. And nowadays you see many, many campaigns that are not in that sort of mind. And I would wish that more makers will find a way to establish or to approach with their ideas. And I’m lucky to be in partner with a great company like Tross who have a lot of resources, but I know that if I haven’t been teamed up with them, I’m not sure I could have reached this kind of crowd. Because I didn’t have the knowledge, the resources and everything that’s needed to launch a successful campaign. So I could only wish there would be enough crowdfunding platform, Kickstarter or others, that will offer this kind of support or this kind of goals to the makers without resources like me, like I started the way I started.
Roy Morejon:
Excellent. Well Elyasaf, this has been amazing. Please, this is your opportunity to give our audience your pitch, tell people what you’re all about, where they should go, and why they should check out and Makeway on Kickstarter.
Elyasaf Shweka:
Okay. Makeway is live on Kickstarter for the next two weeks where you can support us there. After that, we’re hoping to launch maybe an additional campaign in a different platform. It’s still not finalized yet, but we will for Makeway. And you can reach us there, we are available on Facebook, Instagram, all that. Makeway, you can find it easily.
Roy Morejon:
Excellent. Well audience, thanks again for tuning in. Make sure to visit artofthekickstart.com for the notes, the transcript, links to the campaign and everything else we talked about today. And of course thank you to our crowdfunding podcast sponsors The Gadget Flow, and Product Hype. Elyasaf, thank you so much for joining us today on Art of the Kickstart.
Elyasaf Shweka:
You’re welcome, and thank you for the opportunity to speak about it.
Roy Morejon:
Absolutely. Cheers.
Roy Morejon:
Thanks for tuning into another episode of Art of the Kickstart, the show about building a business, world, and life with crowdfunding. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, awesome. Make sure to visit artofthekickstart.com and tell us all about it. There you’ll find additional information about past episodes, our Kickstarter guide to crushing it, and of course, if you loved this episode a lot, leave us a review at artofthekickstart.com/iTunes. It helps more inventors, entrepreneurs, and startups find this show, and helps us get better guests to help you build a better business. If you need more hands on crowdfunding strategy advice, please feel free to request a quote on eventyspartners.com. Thanks again for tuning in, and we’ll see you again next week.